11 replies to this topic

[Brett J]

Hi guys,

Am not new to WHS as I've been running my current server for a couple of years now but am new the forums so I hope this is the right place to ask this question.

I am seeking advice to what probably sounds like a mad idea. Can you run a whs box in a garden shed?

No, I'm not mad (alright maybe a little) but here's why I want to know.

Since getting my homeserver Its been steadily growing in size as I am a terrible hoarder when it comes to data. My server is the centre of my home with all my music, video and DVD/Blu ray located on it and shared to various rooms around the house. Unfortunately the more data I've gained, the more I've become paranoid about loosing it, until I have ended up duplicating the entire server to another machine.


So now I have two servers, add to that some software which won't run under whs which needs a 24/7 windows 7 box and voilla we are up to 3.

As you can imagine this little lot not only generates a lot of heat but also weighs quite a bit when it's all together.

At the moment I have bits everywhere and it's like living in a branch of PC world.

This is why I want to move everything to a shed in the garden. If achievable I would expect to buy a dedicated shed to house the servers to try to keep it as sterile as possible.

I'm assuming the temp might be a problem, especially in summer so have been looking in to small air conditioned racks to house the servers but I want to know if anyone has any experience of keeping the server in the shed or "garden office"

Also if anyone has any experience of ac racks, will they be sufficient to control the temp in this sort of environment?

There really is nowhere else I can put this lot and I would like to get it all in one place.

Any suggestions or comments would be most welcome.

Thanks

Brett

[Ian]

the shed in the shade and I'm sure it will be fine. If I were doing that I would hard wire to the house and put the cable through a plastic pipe to protect it.

[Dave Marchant (WGS)]

Mine has always lived in the garage with no apparent adverse effects. Clearly I have a larger air volume to even out the temperature extremes but it gets pretty hot in summer and very cold in winter. All I have done is try and keep the server running at all times so it is not trying to start up at an extreme temp.

I would be more concerned of heat rather than cold though as the server has a tendency to keep itself warm in winter.

[Brett J]

Thanks Ian, I had intended hard wiring as the server serves all of my media content over a gigabit lan. But the plastic pipe sounds like a good idea to protect the cables.

[Brett J]

Mine has always lived in the garage with no apparent adverse effects. Clearly I have a larger air volume to even out the temperature extremes but it gets pretty hot in summer and very cold in winter. All I have done is try and keep the server running at all times so it is not trying to start up at an extreme temp.

I would be more concerned of heat rather than cold though as the server has a tendency to keep itself warm in winter.

Thanks Dave, I wasn't sure which would be worse, the Heat or the Cold. Do you have any idea what the temp gets up to in your garage during the summer. The shed is partly shaded but as it is only a wooden construction may not be as cool as a garage. Any idea of temps would be great. In general i think it should be ok, its just on the hotter days of the year i'm a bit concerned. Its currently in the loft and has been fine all summer, i'm just not sure if the shed would be much hotter. may have to do some tests on that, if we get any more hot days.

[Dave Marchant (WGS)]

I hadn't really noticed the temp specifically. As we have a pretty warm day today for the UK, the garage ambient is still only about 26 - 27. My HP X510 is showing a CPU temp of 53 degrees, The disks range between 33 and 39 degrees.

The garage does have some through ventilation around the edges of the roof and I think that helps by providing a bit of airflow. I don't think I would get concerned even if the ambient went up to 30 - 32 as the differentials would mean no significant stress on the server.

[Brett J]

Thanks so much for your help Dave, it sounds like it should be ok then. my main box is running at 44 degrees today and when i went up to the loft this morning it was a lot hotter up there than in the existing garden shed.

Now i just have to redo the garden a little to fit the new shed in.

Thanks Again.

[zzyzx]

I'm exploring a similar solution.
I'm running an IBM eServer 255 (7U rack mount) + a x336 (1U rack mount) + the next one
- thinking to relocate to a purpose built "shed" with one full double-sided rack containg servers, air conditioning unit, UPS, batteries, and other equip (FTA sattelite tuner(s), OTA amps, whirlygig and doohickey controllers, etc)

Bssed on my preliminary research/planning:
insulate the shed like crazy (skin the inside with what's cheapest and pack the walls; highest R value you can get) this is if your going to use climate control (AC); otherwise use exhaust fan(s) at the top and vent the bottom
2 to 3 AC ciucuits (1 Dedicated for server(s); 1 for Climate control; 1 for lighting/Aux)
- better yet a small sub-panel (220/20-30A)
seperate 2"pipe for data (4-6 cat6 or more & leave a jet line for the ones you didn't think of)
ponder a fiber link (score a couple switches of ebay)
drive a ground rod to bond the sub-panel to
shield the the shed (use chicken wire bonded to ground for EMF shielding)
you could even use light plate grounded and bonded for basic light EMP hardening (use fiber only in that case and go crazy with grounding)

My method is to use whatever I can find cheapest then design and build as close to military &/or enterprise specs as possible.

[Brett J]

That's interesting, I hadn't thought about grounding since i guessed this would be handled by the mains power earth. Are you using it for the machines or the rack. I was thinking of using a wooden frame to house the machines as they are towers not rackmount boxes.

I agree on insulation but my biggest concern isnt so much cooling (although obviously that's important). What I'm mainly worried about is that it might get too cold in there in winter when for example, overnight when my pond freezes, it might just be a bit cold for the servers.

I'm trying to prevent having the full rang of servers on 24/7 to cut down the power consumption a bit. I am currently using automated wake On LAN and shutdown commands controlled by a small 200w server which manages the most important shares/remote access etc and switch off my big data stores and duplicated (backup machines). As my usage patterns are reasonably fixed, through the week, you don't even notice that most of the servers are off as they are auto booted by the time I want them, I.e. evening for watching DVD. Don't need the DVD store running while I am at work so it makes sense. Also if I do need it "out of hours" so to speak, I have a handy WOL app for the iPhone which boots the server in minute or so.

What I'm getting at is that only the small server will be running 24/7 which means the others won't keep themselves warm overnight. One of the it techs at work suggested that storing the machines outside, even in an insulated building, might sap the life out of the CMOS battery, not to mention the damage it could do to the hard drives, (of which there will be quite a lot).

I have recently been thinking about storing the machines inside a smaller cupboard inside the shed and heating it with a thermostat controlled greenhouse heater, just to take the chill out of the air. Then in summer I could open the doors of the cuboard to get more ventilation from the rest of the shed although it will still be pretty warm.

How big would your shed be? Do you think it will be necessary to use exhaust fans if the space is big enough? That said, do you think ac is a must given that i only run the majority of the kit at evening and weekends. As for ventilation, I had assumed that a shed was probably ventilated enough given that they dont have any type of weather seal?

Am really interested to hear your thoughts on the whole concept. Most people I,ve suggested it to just look at me as though I have gone mad. The above are just my observations from my research, I haven't finalised the plan yet as I am not looking to start until the weather improves.

Brett

[oj88]

Here's a thought that just popped up. If you have to use a heater to warm up those servers that are off, you might as well be leaving them on throughout the winter. You're probably looking at about the same power consumption.

[Brett J]

@oj88

Thanks for your comment, I did originally think about this but I'm building this to be future proof. Every time I relocate my server it out grows its space.

What I'm trying to build is a Space for 4 full size atx cases plus possibly two good size ups depending on the load.

I also need to house a smaller Matx machine for the main server in addition to the main data stores, plus switches and a monitor and screen etc. I did originally thing about insulating a tool store or bike shed. (about a metre high) but I don't really want the neighbours to see the amount of kit in there for security purposes, so it really. Execs to be something I ca get inside as well.

Each machine will eventually contain 9 hard drives and reasonable processing power I'm looking at minimum of 500w power supplies if not 1000. I know they only draw what they re using but I'm still guessing that 4 x 1000 watt psu running a total of 36 x 2tb drives running 24/7 will be quite expensive. The heater I've been looking at is 80 watts which is probably comparable to one pc running a dc processor and light use? Please feel free to correct any of my assumptions as, while I'm used to managing the software side of the server, the physical location stuff is still new to me. Until now it's been humming away in the loft but i keep running out of space, so by the time my network is finished, I don't think the loft is gonna take it all, which is a shame because it really is out of the way up there. Unfortunately I'm in a small, modern house and there just isn't the room to house it all and muffle the sound.

Keep the suggestions coming though guys

Thanks

Brett

[zzyzx]

A glance at the specs for my 255 shows enviromental requirements of:

Air temperature:

Server on: 10° to 35°C (50° to 95°F). Altitude: 0 to 914 m (3000 ft).

Server on: 10° to 32°C (50° to 89.6°F). Altitude: 914 m (3000 ft) to 2133 m (7000 ft).

Server off: 10° to 43°C (50° to 110°F). Maximum altitude: 2133 m (7000 ft).

Humidity:

Server on: 8% to 80%

Server off: 8% to 80%

Heat output:
Approximate heat output in British thermal units (Btu) per hour:

Minimum configuration: 461 Btu (0.14 kilowatts)

Maximum configuration: 3412 Btu (1.0 kilowatts)

These numbers are for a big 55 kg (121.2lb) high-performance quad-processor server. Your heat output should be MUCH lower.

Add a small heater! I'm in southern Arizona and I'm planning to have one although I expect it to rarely if ever come on.

I'm planning mine to be alongside the house so I won't be driving a ground rod, but I would if I were putting out in the yard ("garden" I guess is the term) . In reality, it would probably be fine without it and just grounding to the main box. We get lots of lightning around here so I wouldn't even think of having an out-building not bonded to it's own ground system.

I'm planning to house everything on the 1 rack and build the walls just a little bigger with front and back doors for access. Thinking I'll divide the rack so the lower section is vented for batteries and AC hot side and upper for AC cold side, servers and other equip. I'll be aiming to get the insulation to about R-30 or higher.

It's all still on paper and a lot of details keep changing, usually due to materials becoming available for free.