[Vocalpoint]

Morning,

As I get deeper into my WHS - I have now hit that stage where I am putting DVD Rips on the server via My Movies 3 and I am trying to decide if straight full res RIPS (in .VOB format) are the way to go or should I be ripping the disc and then encoding to something like h.264 or similar to:

A) Reduce size
B) Make for a more reliable "stream" for my wireless clients

Or - should standard "rips" with the standard VOB files in a VIDEO_TS folder stream just as well?

I am using a D-Link N class router and gigabit LAN connections are around. My lone wireless client connents at a constant 300MBPS (as reported from the network status on the client computer). As usual - I am having no issues with "wired" clients...but testing this wireless client yesterday - I was starting to see glitching and stuttering while doing basic playback via VLC media player....

Appreciate any insights.

Cheers!

VP

[LPLPACA]

As far as I am aware, the only way to get HD streaming running with out jitters is by wired Gigabit - anything much less than that and it won't work. I have seen it work on a demo system in the past but ,, it was setup as a perfect demo system, tuned or whatever, and over a very short distance without any obstructions,

Once you throw a wireless system into the domestic scene you have have walls, power wires, central heating pipes, fresh water pipes etc and any other number of factors that will interfere / echo signals and cause packet drops on a wireless system, even an N system.

Lower the quality and I'll think you'll find it will work fine, but not for HD.

Have you tried it with the receiver in the same room as the transmitter over a very short distance - if it works that way, then try increasing the distance / putting objects in the way (walls etc) and see how far it can reach before it crashes out to test if it is local interference.

[Drashna Jaelre (WGS)]

Personally, I prefer to encode to smaller format, like WMV or DivX/Xvid.
Though, I would test a file copy and see exactly what speed you are getting over wireless. And I think there are a number of tweaks that could be performed to boost performance.

[Vocalpoint]

LPLPACA, on 28 November 2009 - 07:40 PM, said:

As far as I am aware, the only way to get HD streaming running with out jitters is by wired Gigabit - anything much less than that and it won't work.

Keep in mind - these are standard DVD rips....no HD...no Blue Ray...nothing with overbearing overhead - just your run of the mill standard 720x480 widescreen DVD's from the home collection. I will experiment a bit to see if a wmv or divx make any difference. I have also heard that the mkv container is a good candidate as well....

Appreciate any more insights.....

Cheers!

VP

[Drashna Jaelre (WGS)]

I prefer WMV because I own a 360 and a Zune HD, so it's just simpler for me to use WMV.

[GaPony]

Try taking one of your ripped DVD (.vob structure) folders and run it through VOB2MPG to create a single .mpg file. They seem to work a little better with VLC. Next, I'd try converting it to .mkv with Handbrake. You can get great quality with alot less bandwidth.

I don't have have any problems with streaming even Blu-Ray .m2ts files over my D-Link DIR655 network to a wireless WDTV Live box, so this shouldn't be a problem for you. VLC has a ton of options, maybe just playing with those will fix the jittering.

[CompTronicsTec]

LPLPACA, on 28 November 2009 - 07:40 PM, said:

the only way to get HD streaming running with out jitters is by wired Gigabit - anything much less than that and it won't work.

Simply not true, ive played back pure blu ray over wired 100mbs, and wireless N can be 3 times faster. Not to mention hes trying plain DVD, which i successfully play to my PS3 thats wireless 54g, while my computer is 100mbs wired.

This sounds like a matter of your network setup. Try a different wireless channel, maybe your getting the full speed but something is interferring and your losing packets? Im not a network guru so i cant recommend any certain tweaks...id google search it and see if anyone has posted some tweaks, or if maybe this is a known issue with certain hardware your using. Also keep a eye on your host computers resources while trying this...maybe your cpu is getting pegg'd for some reason, or your ram filled, unlikely i know but maybe some software conflict is causing this.

To troubleshoot your hardware, i suggest simplifying things and seeing if any of it makes a difference...disconnect other computers, close any non essential software, etc. 

O yea, and make sure the power saving feature of the wireless card is turned off...sometimes this causes very short, seemingly insignificant lapses in connection...un-noticeable until your trying to use the adapter consistently for large files. I had an issue like this using a usb wireless adapter.

[LPLPACA]

Vocalpoint, on 28 November 2009 - 09:29 PM, said:

Keep in mind - these are standard DVD rips....no HD...no Blue Ray...nothing with overbearing overhead - just your run of the mill standard 720x480 widescreen DVD's from the home collection. I will experiment a bit to see if a wmv or divx make any difference. I have also heard that the mkv container is a good candidate as well....

Appreciate any more insights.....

Cheers!

VP

Sorry, from you saying you were running vob files direct I assumed you were talking HD - well if you want to run vob files direct, I would copy them from the dvd direct and run dvd decryptor to cut out all the empty spaces they tend to put in, you could cut the file size by about a third,

I convert all my files to either divx or mkv and run them over a 100mb network, and they run almost as well over standard 54mb providing it is just about the only data on the wireless prtion, once you get two or three machines sending and recieving data simultaneously then it starts freezing, however the wired 100mb network will just carry on.

Still - I advise you to run the little test I described with wireless just to see if you have bad spots in the house causing a drop in signal quality and making resends necessary.

[GaPony]

Wireless N shouldn't be effected much by walls, furniture, etc. unless its just mounted too low. It should cover most homes with very little difficulty.

If all the devices support dual band, you could try changing from 2.4ghz to 5.0ghz. This could make a difference, especially if you have 2.4ghz cordless phones.

[LPLPACA]

GaPony, on 28 November 2009 - 11:38 PM, said:

Wireless N shouldn't be effected much by walls, furniture, etc. unless its just mounted too low. It should cover most homes with very little difficulty.

I agree, but you'd be surprised what running water through a badly earthed copper pipe system can do to a signal (central heating), or a malfunctioning baby monitor type system, even though N is designed to reach parts other revisions can't reach (hmm sounds like an advert) but having installed quite a few and testing in various locations the variations in signal strength and reliability of data transfer can alter drastically - its strange but true ... thats why I asked about testing in the same room and then moving outwards

[SPinn]

I use a product called MakeMKV which does a conversion from either BD or SD disks (or ISO images). It does not compress but does give you the opportunity to include or exclude all the "Extra" material.

I like being able to preserve as much detail as possible (even if it is only in my head) and the file sizes are manageable. Files play in Media Center or Media Player, MakeMKV is an open source product and free of charge. I have not had any issue streaming these files via "N" although I personally prefer to use wired.

If I choose to compress I use Fair Use Wizard 2 (FU2, how can you not love the name!), Badaboom or Handbrake.

YMMV - Steve

[darkenedsoul]

SPinn, on 29 November 2009 - 12:32 AM, said:

I use a product called MakeMKV which does a conversion from either BD or SD disks (or ISO images). It does not compress but does give you the opportunity to include or exclude all the "Extra" material.

I like being able to preserve as much detail as possible (even if it is only in my head) and the file sizes are manageable. Files play in Media Center or Media Player, MakeMKV is an open source product and free of charge. I have not had any issue streaming these files via "N" although I personally prefer to use wired.

If I choose to compress I use Fair Use Wizard 2 (FU2, how can you not love the name!), Badaboom or Handbrake.

YMMV - Steve

Hi Steve, I haven't delved too deeply into this yet. I recently purchased DVDFab DVD version to rip my DVD's as I find the time. I have a PS3 which is my player for video/audio from my WHS (HP ex485 w/additional disks added). Will the PS3 play files transcoded with this program seemlessly/easily? As it stands it appears I have to rip via DVDFab and copy the folders to the WHS or rip them and convert to single VOB file (should still be playable via PS3 and PS3MediaServer correct?) or go a step further (as someone mentioned elsewhere) and create single VOB file then convert it to an MPEG format? I want the simplest way to do this (time/ease) and I plan on taking out some features (other languages, other fluff I don't care about) and want access to the menu options for content left in. So will this program do something similar to DVDFab (purchased)? I see it's in beta, is it going commercial or shareware or what?

Thanks in advance,

Mike

[SPinn]

darkenedsoul, on 29 November 2009 - 01:21 AM, said:

Hi Steve, I haven't delved too deeply into this yet. I recently purchased DVDFab DVD version to rip my DVD's as I find the time. I have a PS3 which is my player for video/audio from my WHS (HP ex485 w/additional disks added). Will the PS3 play files transcoded with this program seemlessly/easily? As it stands it appears I have to rip via DVDFab and copy the folders to the WHS or rip them and convert to single VOB file (should still be playable via PS3 and PS3MediaServer correct?) or go a step further (as someone mentioned elsewhere) and create single VOB file then convert it to an MPEG format? I want the simplest way to do this (time/ease) and I plan on taking out some features (other languages, other fluff I don't care about) and want access to the menu options for content left in. So will this program do something similar to DVDFab (purchased)? I see it's in beta, is it going commercial or shareware or what?

Thanks in advance,

Mike

Mike, first off not having a PS3 I have no idea as to whether or not MakeMKV's MKV files would play on that console, my apologies; but I would rather admit ignorance then make an uninformed guess. I would suggest that you might want to give it a try since your only investment would be just the time to try. I could not find any references at http://www.makemkv.com/aboutmkv/ for Playstation, you might want to post a question there.

I have not used DVDFab but in looking at their web page it appears that their product does have more options on how a DVD is processed than MakeMKV has, especially regarding final formats, MakeMKV only creates .mkv files. The mkv file can be transcoded by a number of different products, in my case the final .mkv format was exactly what I was looking for mediacenter play. MakeMKV does let you select what you would like included in the final compilation (ie) which languages you want, what subtitles, which audio soundtrack, etc.

I am not sure how the eventual MakeMKV product will marketed, you are correct it is still in beta, personally it has done such a good job for me that I will gladly purchase it if/when a commercial version becomes available. I say this only because of the experiences I had when I started working with BD disks. The file structure is very different than a DVD and selecting "which files contained what" became quite a hassle, MakeMKV made it very much simpler,

I should have mentioned 2 things earlier
1) I use AnyDVD to start the process, this is a commercial product that I use in order to create iso images of my DVD's for archiving
2) MakeMKV is fast, very fast. I have a relatively fast machine and the average time to process a BD disk with MakeMKV is under 20 minutes, remembering that MakeMKV is not compressing and creating a single playable file.

What ever you choose as your ripping engine I could not agree more with the advice given regarding converting to a single playable file, in my case "Wifenly Acceptance" skyrocketed!

After all that I must add that I am not employed by, or have any affiliation with the MakeMKV people, just like their product.

I hope I addressed your questions, my apologies if I haven't. Best - Steve

[Urmaster]

MKV doesn't play back on anything other than a dedicated media device (or PC of course). MKV is mis-used a lot today because people are unfamiliar with it, I see loads of TV rips and so on using MKV for no reason. MKV is good but has it's place; softsubs, variable bit rate and so on make it ideal for Blu-Ray rips but not much else.

About the HD thing I've streamed countless HD content to my xbox and laptop over Wi-Fi, works fine unless you want to stream a blu-ray live over say b or g. Welcome to the wonderful world of compression (but nothing beats a wire)

To the OP, what you want is simply the best quality for the lowest file size. In order to retain compatibility I would suggest MPEG 2 or VC-1. You may find MPEG 2 rather large and difficult to stream but VC-1 doesn't pair well with many audio codecs since you have very few containers for it (which may reduce your compatibility for say 5.1 Audio on a PS3). H.264 is a very good middle-ground I suggest trying a flavor like XviD and pairing it with AC-3 if you're into the encoding thing. The best thing to do is play around and find a compromise because it will be just that. There are far too many containers and codecs for the companies to settle on so you get stuck with that horrible word which means it won't play on x device or something. My 2 pence:

MPEG2/VOB
VC-1/WMV
Xvid/AVI

Good luck.

[jodyn]

Urmaster, on 29 November 2009 - 04:17 PM, said:

MKV doesn't play back on anything other than a dedicated media device (or PC of course). MKV is mis-used a lot today because people are unfamiliar with it, I see loads of TV rips and so on using MKV for no reason. MKV is good but has it's place; softsubs, variable bit rate and so on make it ideal for Blu-Ray rips but not much else.

I can play MKV on both my Xbox 360's and on a Linksys DMA 2200 through WMC

here's the walkthrough

http://www.hack7mc.c...-divx-labs.html

[Vocalpoint]

Urmaster, on 29 November 2009 - 04:17 PM, said:

To the OP, what you want is simply the best quality for the lowest file size. In order to retain compatibility I would suggest MPEG 2 or VC-1. You may find MPEG 2 rather large and difficult to stream but VC-1 doesn't pair well with many audio codecs since you have very few containers for it (which may reduce your compatibility for say 5.1 Audio on a PS3). H.264 is a very good middle-ground I suggest trying a flavor like XviD and pairing it with AC-3 if you're into the encoding thing. The best thing to do is play around and find a compromise because it will be just that. There are far too many containers and codecs for the companies to settle on so you get stuck with that horrible word which means it won't play on x device or something.

Well...wow...thanks for all the replys.

I have done a lot more testing and it seems that I have solved my problem...by changing up the actual playback software. Much of the early testing was done on VLC...which - works but I noticed a number of weird things like window resizing and other oddball things - and I had the stuttering only when using this. For the second round of testing - I moved the movies into J. River Media Center and everything rocks now. Whether a single file, VOB structure..whatever - JRMC plows thru everything wired or wireless with nary an issue.

I also have decided to move to the h.264/MKV format in terms of best quality/single file playback. I converted a few DVD's to mkv and the quality is outstanding...looks identical to playing the disc in the DVD player.

Hey - for anyone out there using DVDFab to rip...can anyone bring me up to speed on which mkv "template" I should be using? This thing has countless aspect ratios and frame resolution...but none seem to match the standard aspect of a 720x480 normal widescreen DVD. What I need is the best "standard" conversion template to get me as close to the disc aspect as possible. Really appreciate any help on this one.

Cheers!

VP

[GaPony]

You might be happier with using DVDFab strictly in a decrypting role and use MakeMKV for the actual conversion process. Its very fast working from the HDD. Its certainly worth trying once or twice.

[Vocalpoint]

GaPony, on 30 November 2009 - 05:51 AM, said:

You might be happier with using DVDFab strictly in a decrypting role and use MakeMKV for the actual conversion process. Its very fast working from the HDD. Its certainly worth trying once or twice.

Does MakeMKV have templates and/or does it honor the frame resolution and aspect ratio of the source material without messing with it?

[Urmaster]

jodyn, on 29 November 2009 - 05:49 PM, said:

I can play MKV on both my Xbox 360's and on a Linksys DMA 2200 through WMC

here's the walkthrough

http://www.hack7mc.c...-divx-labs.html

Those are extenders though, I meant to say native playback on the OS or such like, still look at the number of tweaks needed there to support MKV on an extender.

[benogil]

Perhaps not applicable to your setup, but on other forums, where the topic comes up often ( wireless streaming ) they find the best results to be using NFS for wireless streaming, more specifically nfs-tcp. If you can try this, the best results have been with Allegro.