[Mr_Mke]

Hello all - New to the forums, but have been reading up on this for quite some time. It's time for me to build a server, and I thought where better to go for help than here. I don't need specific recommendations on parts, I'm quite well versed in that. What I could use is a yes/no/maybe on can I even do what I want using Home Server, or should I just commit and install my MSDN version of Server 2008.

BTW I'm not totally against waiting on purchasing until Vail is released.

My network:
- 3 Laptops all wirelessly run through a linksys router
- 1 Color Laserjet printer w/ ethernet - wired through linksys router
- 1 BD player wired ethernet (more on this below)

My Audio/Video:
- Standard cable, not run through digital box, no HD
- Receiver handling audio
- BD Player hooked up with HDMI to television, also wired for ethernet and includes Netflix and Vudu for renting movies

Current Storage:
- ~750GB of data split among a few external hard drives, plus 3 laptops that could use a solid backup location

What I would like:
- One server either in entertainment center or closet
- Act as backup location for all laptops
- Act as DVR for standard def video
- Act as Boxee box, or something similar, to allow online media streaming
- Act as central media streamer (I think this may be difficult)
- I would like to be able to access media on my laptops elsewhere
- Ideally I could even access through my blackberry (but I REALLY doubt that's possible)
- Allow guest access for family/friends/etc to access files if needed
- Possibly act as a pass-through for my blu ray player if I would like to rip video (yeah yeah copyright blah blah... I'm aware of it...)
- I have a zune pass that I would like to somehow incorporate into this as my main source for music

I think that's all I want. I have some ideas in my head how to do it, but would greatly value the expert opinions found in this forum.

Again, going to build it, and would like your recommendations for what I'm going to need to put it together and get it working, i.e. 4TB of hard drive space, WHS PP3, Quad Core i7 processor, 2 TV Tuners, and a magic wand.

Thanks ahead of time for all your help.

[CompTronicsTec]

Mr_Mke, on 09 March 2010 - 06:28 PM, said:

What I would like:
1- One server either in entertainment center or closet
2- Act as backup location for all laptops
3- Act as DVR for standard def video
4- Act as Boxee box, or something similar, to allow online media streaming
5- Act as central media streamer (I think this may be difficult)
6- I would like to be able to access media on my laptops elsewhere
7- Ideally I could even access through my blackberry (but I REALLY doubt that's possible)
8- Allow guest access for family/friends/etc to access files if needed
9- Possibly act as a pass-through for my blu ray player if I would like to rip video (yeah yeah copyright blah blah... I'm aware of it...)
10- I have a zune pass that I would like to somehow incorporate into this as my main source for music
 

I numbered your list so its easier to address. First off welcome to the forums. Overall i think your list is very reasonable, i think most of it can easily be accomplished using WHS and what cannot be directly done by WHS can easily be done with some additional hardware.

What can be done out of the box:

1, 2, 5*, 6*, 7**, 8

* This can be done using the built in windows media server thingy...but i prefer alternative 3rd party software to do this, more on that soon.

What can be done using addins/hardware:

3, 4-8, 9

Streaming can be done, and there are many good options for this. Tversity, PS3MS, Twonky, etc. The first 2 i use and love. Tversity can even be setup to access and admin from anywhere over the net, and while i havent tried it i have every reason to believe it can be accessed from a smartphone (though maybe in a limited capacity).

Also you may want to look into media players like WD TV Live and the Asus O!Play. Basically these act as receivers connected to TV's letting you play the media on your WHS/computer from the comfort of your couch/TV. Best off all they are cheap and work very well with a wide range of media types.

As for the hardware, if you already have a core i7 and have noting else to use it for, then it will be fine...however id use a cpu thats a bit better on power as your server is most likely going to be on 24/7 if not close to it. Its way overkill to use a cpu like that in a server. Id actually recommend instead that you build 2 separate computers if your highly considering blu ray ripping and encoding.

1 moderate server, and 1 powerful video workstation. The combined cost could be similar to trying to rig your server to be both a workstation & server. This is of course assuming your going to do alot of HD encoding. Alternately, if you plan to just rip a few BD's, you could just use a moderately equipped server.

You could easily build a capable server totaling about $500$600 US before drives.

Also youll noticed i skipped 10 and thats because i know nothing about it, unfortunately i wont be any help with that topic.

As for waiting on Vail, if you can wait i would. Then again if the $100 isnt any skin off your back, then you could just get WHS now and "upgrade" later if you need to (notice upgrade in quotes).

All in all i think WHS would address your needs pretty well. As for a DVR ive never done it myself but there are many topics pertaining to it on the forums and other users who have set it up.

[GaPony]

I hope you don't mean " Possibly act as a pass-through for my blu ray player if I would like to rip video" for a standalone Blu-Ray player connected to your TV via HDMI...

I think you'll need "Magic" to pull that off. Everything else seems doable with the right hardware/software.

[Mr_Mke]

GaPony, on 10 March 2010 - 04:25 AM, said:

I hope you don't mean " Possibly act as a pass-through for my blu ray player if I would like to rip video" for a standalone Blu-Ray player connected to your TV via HDMI...

I think you'll need "Magic" to pull that off. Everything else seems doable with the right hardware/software.

Here's what I was thinking on this front, and I don't think it involves magic.

Blu Ray -> TV via HDMI
Blu Ray -> PC via component video into a video capture card (or possibly tv tuner card), and use video capture/ripping software (this is where help would be required). I know it wouldn't be in 1080p, and it would be a 1:1 recording speed, but maybe still possible.

I think this would be an after-thought, but I'm an engineer so I like planning and giving myself too much work.

Thanks for your input though!

[Mr_Mke]

DV-Design, on 09 March 2010 - 08:18 PM, said:

I numbered your list so its easier to address. First off welcome to the forums. Overall i think your list is very reasonable, i think most of it can easily be accomplished using WHS and what cannot be directly done by WHS can easily be done with some additional hardware.

What can be done out of the box:

1, 2, 5*, 6*, 7**, 8

* This can be done using the built in windows media server thingy...but i prefer alternative 3rd party software to do this, more on that soon.

What can be done using addins/hardware:

3, 4-8, 9

Streaming can be done, and there are many good options for this. Tversity, PS3MS, Twonky, etc. The first 2 i use and love. Tversity can even be setup to access and admin from anywhere over the net, and while i havent tried it i have every reason to believe it can be accessed from a smartphone (though maybe in a limited capacity).

Also you may want to look into media players like WD TV Live and the Asus O!Play. Basically these act as receivers connected to TV's letting you play the media on your WHS/computer from the comfort of your couch/TV. Best off all they are cheap and work very well with a wide range of media types.

As for the hardware, if you already have a core i7 and have noting else to use it for, then it will be fine...however id use a cpu thats a bit better on power as your server is most likely going to be on 24/7 if not close to it. Its way overkill to use a cpu like that in a server. Id actually recommend instead that you build 2 separate computers if your highly considering blu ray ripping and encoding.

1 moderate server, and 1 powerful video workstation. The combined cost could be similar to trying to rig your server to be both a workstation & server. This is of course assuming your going to do alot of HD encoding. Alternately, if you plan to just rip a few BD's, you could just use a moderately equipped server.

You could easily build a capable server totaling about $500$600 US before drives.

Also youll noticed i skipped 10 and thats because i know nothing about it, unfortunately i wont be any help with that topic.

As for waiting on Vail, if you can wait i would. Then again if the $100 isnt any skin off your back, then you could just get WHS now and "upgrade" later if you need to (notice upgrade in quotes).

All in all i think WHS would address your needs pretty well. As for a DVR ive never done it myself but there are many topics pertaining to it on the forums and other users who have set it up.

First - DV-Design Thanks for your very thorough response. I will have to start looking into your software packages.

I've also thought about creating two servers off the bat, but I do have a space issue currently as I live in an apartment. If I was in a house I would probably have a server closet already :-) I also probably won't be ripping and encoding a ton of media, and if I am it probably will be something that runs over night and would not be too time sensitive.

I like your point about the power, being an electrical engineer I guess I should have been thinking about this. I have an old P4 system that I may even end up using. It's got hyperthreading and I think a 3.0 Ghz processor, so it's not terrible. Definitely is not light on the power requirements though. It may be worth me putting a little money into a more power efficient processor.

As for the hard drives, which was something that I didn't bring up before; do you like the Caviar green for their power saving? Or should I just go with the Black series or something else for the speed requirements. I am playing with the idea of buying an SSD to put the OS on and running a redundant RAID system (Maybe RAID 10), for the storage. I guess that's one more question - do many people run a redundant RAID system with WHS and is it necessary?

I'm kind of thinking I'll wait for Vail, although it sounds like there's no clear time frame for release. As for the Zune, I guess I'll just do some digging on that. More than anything I'll just want to use it as a dedicated music server, so it'll probably just involve buying an okay sound card and hooking up some sort of external input device.

[GaPony]

An SSD is a complete waste of money for WHS. The ONLY thing you gain is a faster bootup. The real work of WHS happens on the pooled drives.

WHS doesn't support RAID. That doesn't mean you can't make it work, but WHS duplication works very well and in many ways, it works better than RAID.
.

[CompTronicsTec]

Mr_Mke, on 10 March 2010 - 03:52 PM, said:

Here's what I was thinking on this front, and I don't think it involves magic.

Blu Ray -> TV via HDMI
Blu Ray -> PC via component video into a video capture card (or possibly tv tuner card), and use video capture/ripping software (this is where help would be required). I know it wouldn't be in 1080p, and it would be a 1:1 recording speed, but maybe still possible.

I think this would be an after-thought, but I'm an engineer so I like planning and giving myself too much work.

Thanks for your input though!

Not sure this is even possible as BD players require all components to be HDCP compliant (DRM). Your best bet is to use a computer with a BD drive and AnyDVD HD to make rips. Then stream them to the TV (using a media player like WD Live TV or a console like PS3) or burn them onto BD media. I have written a guide in the media and streaming section on a good method for ripping movies.

Also i recommend you dont use the P4 as they tend to be power hungry. WD drives are all i personally use, and the green drives should be the best option for your storage pool. As for your OS drive, just use a standard hdd, but like 160GB-500GB, something cheap.

As for Vail, thats the issue, no time frame to work with, so if you cant wait get WHS now and later you can upgrade (though no real upgrade path will be available, aka no popping the Vail disk in and upgrading. likely have to wipe the system (OS drive at least) and install fresh).

[Mr_Mke]

GaPony, on 10 March 2010 - 04:11 PM, said:

An SSD is a complete waste of money for WHS. The ONLY thing you gain is a faster bootup. The real work of WHS happens on the pooled drives.

WHS doesn't support RAID. That doesn't mean you can't make it work, but WHS duplication works very well and in many ways, it works better than RAID.
.

Could you elaborate a little on how it works better than RAID? What I'm really looking for is not just a bunch of storage, but a real time redundant solution.

You're probably right as far as the SSD only helping with bootup. I was thinking from a power standpoint it would be more efficient than an 80-120GB 7200RPM.

Thanks!

[wardog (WGS)]

Mr_Mke, on 12 March 2010 - 02:48 PM, said:

Could you elaborate a little on how it works ......?

Windows Home Server Drive Extender – Technical Brief

[GaPony]

Mr_Mke, on 12 March 2010 - 02:48 PM, said:

Could you elaborate a little on how it works better than RAID? What I'm really looking for is not just a bunch of storage, but a real time redundant solution.

You're probably right as far as the SSD only helping with bootup. I was thinking from a power standpoint it would be more efficient than an 80-120GB 7200RPM.

Thanks!

I see that Wardog supplied the link to the information you wanted..

As far as the system drive goes, you're right that SSDs use very little power, but you'd have to run it for about 30 years to recoupe the $200+ difference in price. Something like the WD 320 Blue WD3200AAKS ($50.00) still spins at 7200rpm and only uses 7.8w under load and 7.2 at idle (less than 1w on standby)... 1w equals about $1.00 per year.

[Mr_Mke]

GaPony, on 12 March 2010 - 08:25 PM, said:

I see that Wardog supplied the link to the information you wanted..

As far as the system drive goes, you're right that SSDs use very little power, but you'd have to run it for about 30 years to recoupe the $200+ difference in price. Something like the WD 320 Blue WD3200AAKS ($50.00) still spins at 7200rpm and only uses 7.8w under load and 7.2 at idle (less than 1w on standby)... 1w equals about $1.00 per year.

Good point Pony. I appreciate your input on this!

[Mr_Mke]

For everyone on here who helped me out, I'm documenting my final decision and build on my personal blog, here.

Check it out, and leave me some comments on there if you think I should go a different route.

I'm writing a post later today on why I've chosen to not use WHS, but Windows 7 Professional instead.

[Evaders99]

Personally, I'm hoping Vail (WHSv2) will handle all your requirements. I believe there will be more integration with media. It's probably the #1 WHS request at this stage, get it integrated with Media Center.
Chances are it still won't support RAID :)

[Mr_Mke]

Evaders99, on 22 April 2010 - 06:44 PM, said:

Personally, I'm hoping Vail (WHSv2) will handle all your requirements. I believe there will be more integration with media. It's probably the #1 WHS request at this stage, get it integrated with Media Center.
Chances are it still won't support RAID :)

Yeah I think you're right, but the fact remains that it will be built on a Windows Server 2008, which will limit the applications that we can use with it. If I'm going to be using this as my central media hub, simply having WMC available will not suffice.

[GaPony]

I think we're to have to wait at least until a usable beta of Vail is released to know exactly what you can do with it. I have a feeling that when it was announced that WHS would be based on Server 2003, some eyes rolled back and list of all the things it couldn't do started forming. The truth is, it turned out to be much more robust that anyone, except maybe Microsoft, ever imagined it would be.

[Mr_Mke]

GaPony, on 23 April 2010 - 05:31 AM, said:

I think we're to have to wait at least until a usable beta of Vail is released to know exactly what you can do with it. I have a feeling that when it was announced that WHS would be based on Server 2003, some eyes rolled back and list of all the things it couldn't do started forming. The truth is, it turned out to be much more robust that anyone, except maybe Microsoft, ever imagined it would be.

Pony - I think you're right. I guess I shouldn't judge something that I haven't seen. But right now, it's still necessary for me to use Windows 7, as I described in my blog post. Next week I'll be picking all the software that I'm putting on it, and you'll see why I couldn't go with a WHS solution.

[bowmah]

Can I ask why someone needs a media server to stream? Can't you just use Windows Media player to "play" the media file or use something like XBMC to just "play" / stream the media files?